Whats going on with our server?

[flosr1]

wow. kurthos, you really think you are or were the king of this server right? I have done the same or even more for this server than any other non staff member since I play here. this whole concept of quantity before quality leads to nothing as everyone can see now. salty because I was right and you were wrong? that's not my problem. I don't critize the staff for not being enough and not doing enough I critize pushing and not delaying the content.
I have donated a 3 digit amount for this server a few months ago when things were still fine.
I have probably advertised this server to 25-30 people. around 10 of them joined and brought maybe like 20 friends with them. most of them except 3 people stopped again because of the issues since tbc.

[Storm]

While you can question Majin's behavior, his guild is gone. Immersion is gone... How many guilds have to leave until you listen to what the community wants?

First of all lets clear some stuff up, Immersion left because Primal could never be the challenge we wanted it to be. We'd want things tuned upwards and be harder than they were, but this would have left the rest of the community with stuff they didnt really want. It made more sense for us to go find what we were after, than to try and make something happen that could never be. So lets not toss names around to make an arguement, you dont speak for us.

Majiin's guild leaving was all based around communication in my opinion. Things happened that they disagreed with, there was no real communication about it and it made itself something far worse than it ever should have been( My Opinion ). Apologies have been made but it comes back to this. You guys want communication from Devs and GMs, but then just flame them when they talk, So what is it you actually want?

This has been a constructive thread so far, lets keep it that way and on topic: Whats happening to Primal at the moment?

So lets talk T4 release currently with a view to moving into T5, a lot of people seem to say they feel T5 is being rushed into? What in T4 is still really broken or what are peoples concerns about moving forward in progression? Do you want more time, are there major issues in T4 or is it the crashes?

So my understanding is that we're in an endless loop of applying TC updates which breaks stuff at random times. This sucks for raiding period. I don't see a solution to the problem other than branching out from trinity core - atleast for the remainder of TBC. I'd like an explanation as to why we are taking in new untested trinitycore updates, as it seems very counterproductive to me. It doesn't matter that you're working hard when you get stuff thrown in constantly from the sideline.

"It doesn't matter if you merge today or in a month from now if you are still going to have fresh commits in regardless."

To go onto this a little more, yes it does totally suck for raiding dont think you will find anyone arguing otherwise.

I think of the core alot like any software updates, do you leave your PC unpatched because it does what you need, but run the risk of an exploit being found, or do you keep updating to keep safe? Thats a tough question (not one for me) but you must understand why it isnt an easy choice for any owner/developer. But equally it sucks for the playerbase.

Again as i note, i dont speak for PW/TW, just me.

Storm/Itburns

[Meladath]

Well, chess doesnt work. Chess loot doesnt really work and is randomly given to us in random curator/prince kills. Moroes is broken (cant avoid garrote with walls), Opera is broken (only 1 fight, plus romulo still randomly 1 shots people behind him), medivh's pyroblast hits far too hard, literally 1 shotting our enh shammy in the raid every attempt (although maybe thats his fault and its balanced ok?). That plus many other things are the reasons why I think T5 is being rushed.

Pretty much every heroic has at least one broken boss or broken mechanic, minimum, also some bosses are so overtuned its basically broken. Then there are the REALLY broken instances like arca and BM.

Should have left the "new core" on the PTR for 2 months before TBC release, from what I heard, TBC content was working ok at that time. Then the merge completely screwed everything the devs worked hard on for months before.

[Kajel]

So lovely to see GM's come out and profess their care so easily for Primal but neglect TW so so easily. The folks in here talking about how they feel neglected and how the staff does not take recommendations from the player base, well kids that's how folks on TW been feeling all the time. Karma works in such a nice way.

You're bleeding players, crashes are frequent, players are exiting. Sorry but not sorry. What goes around comes around.

[Theblomb]

You complain about content being released before being fixed? How about you go to the PTR and test those things before it is released then? I'd argue that no reasonable staff member would agree to release content, if they saw there were multiple bug reports on important aspects of the content.

Let me give you an example. Which raid is the next scheduled? SSC. If I go to the parent report of SSC on the bugtracker, I see: 3 reports from Kurthos, 1 from Fitz, 1 from Trippie, and 14 from myself. If you are complaining that not enough is being done to fix content before release, why are you not the front runner trying to fix stuff, instead of complaining here on the forums?

[flosr1]

So lets talk T4 release currently with a view to moving into T5, a lot of people seem to say they feel T5 is being rushed into? What in T4 is still really broken or what are peoples concerns about moving forward in progression? Do you want more time, are there major issues in T4 or is it the crashes?

ok, Meladath already mentioned a few things so i don't have to list it all. He forgot Netherspite tho.
Fleshbeasts before Prince should be challenging but they can even kill a good geared Tank in a few seconds when 3 Healers are on him.
Last week when we went, Animal Boss did nat spawn (yes we cleared whole area), that boss has actually some really nice items for feral druids or resistance gear for tanks generally.

Ok, it seems i have to mention heroics for the 1000th time again.
Loot of almost all final heroic bosses is bugged. Either they drop only 1 rare item (while they are supposed to drop 2) or they drop the same rare item twice. This is the case for almost all heroics, this has been reported such a long time ago already by me and others. Actually this matters, because some good and powerful pre raid BIS items are not obtainable because of this or ar close to not obtainable. People gave up farming the SP caster trinekt, altho they were there for 2 months every day and did NOT loose it to others, it just did not drop (partially because of rng, partially because of loot being bugged like i mentioend above)
same was for Avatar WW shoulders for a very long time and i have never seen the BF melee trinekt drop one single time even tho i was there also every day. Some people on the server did not even believe me when i told them, the boss drops a melee trinket, because they have not seen it either. Some of those pieces (and not only trinkets, also other items like rings, necks, offhands or items that are used besides pre raid crafted gear etc. just dont drop or have a much lower chance than they should have due to the bugs i mentioned. want more examples? i can give you more, but those were the important ones i guess.

You complain about content being released before being fixed? How about you go to the PTR and test those things before it is released then? I'd argue that no reasonable staff member would agree to release content, if they saw there were multiple bug reports on important aspects of the content.

Let me give you an example. Which raid is the next scheduled? SSC. If I go to the parent report of SSC on the bugtracker, I see: 3 reports from Kurthos, 1 from Fitz, 1 from Trippie, and 14 from myself. If you are complaining that not enough is being done to fix content before release, why are you not the front runner trying to fix stuff, instead of complaining here on the forums?

Blom there are multiple reports from me on the bugtracker, i tried to report as many bugs as i experienced here. You can browse through them, there are plenty. Not from unreleased content tho. But serveral that are already a few weeks or more than amonth old and haven't been fixed yet.

[Jiranthos]

I think we've heard your voices. I don't want this to escalate further into emotionally packed and heated arguments that turn into ad hominem attacks about differing opinions on how things should be.

We heard very good arguments from both Staff, the public that are visibly disgruntled, the public that are supportive and understanding.
We heard why we need to update often, we also heard why we shouldn't.

Now the discussion is turning into nitpicking about very specific issues like a specific pixel on a specific model of specific loot from a specific dungeon on a specific difficulty. We welcome these kinds of discussions but they are for the BugTracker where they will be heard out (they won't here, trust me) and something will be done about them. If you join the Testing team you will find there is a platform to discuss tunings and bugs there too, also.

I'd like to end this by saying that if you are going to attack the players that are supporting the Staff, and the Staff itself and threatening to leave, then just leave, we're not going to change anything soon. Especially because it goes against the way we do things and it's not that easy to change things so fast, and it would just lead to disgruntled Staff members or even more crashes and unforeseen, unplanned issues.

If you truly have 0 hope and 0 belief in the Staff, just leave.
Those who wish to help and believe that we are doing our best - you are welcome to contribute, take 1 hour out of your AFK time in the capital city to report a bug, update the Staff on issues that your guild has noticed, report abusers, learn some basic SQL and get right into the action and fix some problems yourself.

Thank you all for the discussion, it was pleasantly constructive and levelled, but I think we shall end on this high note.