[Rejected] Add an ilvl cap to Trinkets only in arenas

[skyx]

...

1. Restricting trinkets UNIFORMLY affects ALL races and all classes. Humans still can use two PvE trinkets (which IS still an advantage over other races).

2. Read 1.

3. Nope. Ever since Blizzard messed up and introduced extremely overpowered items in PvE which could be used in s7 and s8, it was mandatory to raid for PvPers. Back in retail, anyone with a Shadowmourne was highly sought after for 3s and immediately jumped several hundred rating compared to previous seasons. 2Healers + 1 Shadowmourne comp were popular as well (3s comp based on having an SM). The season ended BEFORE Ruby Sanctum was on farm status IIRC (so not much STS, CTS trinkets etc...)

Also

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/PvP_Power

read this. It is Blizzard's way of realising PvE gear has continuously negatively affecting PvP.

also

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Every_Man_for_Himself

(it is sad blizzard only nerfed it until recently)

4. No, when I say "veteran", I mean veteran. Highly skilled players should be able to rely on their skill and not from RNG procs from trinkets. A highly skilled warrior and paladin can beat an Ele/Destro (although not a favourable matchup) by wasting their cooldowns and turtling. You are talking like the Ele/Disc has CTS/DFO/PoNL trinkets against a bauble-less paladin and warrior.

5. This HELPS entry level players as they don't have to hardcore raiding to be competitive. The standard norm for warriors here is Shadowmourne + hc DBW/STS. Also, you have much less of a chance winning a trinket from a pug than from a PvE guild run.

6. Read 1.

7. Really? So you would rather prefer a gear WIPE over a gear restriction? Unlike my suggestion (which is fair), your "suggestion" bias as it target PvPers only. Obtaining WF pieces does take a lot of time. A gear wipe would piss a lot of people off, especially PvErs who could barely get WF chest with Shadowmourne and Hc DBW/Hc DV (not going to name names here ). If there was to be a PvP gear wipe, it should be for ALL PvP items INCLUDING head/shoulder/weapons. Not removing ALL PvP gear after going through with an abominable "suggestion" is favouritism and bias. PvP is already bad here with Gladiator mounts being available for vote points and now you want to screw PvPers over with a gear wipe?

PS: replacing WF-> Rele is still technically a gear wipe and if JusticeLight's suggestion comes to past, I might as well go follow DIvinity to "that" server. At least I would get to keep my gear there OR better, go retail.

[Justicelight]

And you think Gladiator mounts as rewards would be more beneficial? Don't try to tap into other server issues just to underline your points more.

Why would it be favouritism? who will favour? the ones which are already 4/5 or 5/5? Just think this out for a second.

Player 1: 5/5 WF
Player 2: 3/5 WF (chest, hands, legs),
Difference: 2 WF pieces difference between them.

Gear after downgrade to rele chest, hands, legs:
Player 1: 2/5 WF
Player 2: 0/5 WF
Difference: 2 WF pieces difference between them.

What we gain: making everyone susceptible to queue for arenas, increasing the activity.

Once again, it's just a pov, not a given.

[skyx]

What we gain: making everyone susceptible to queue for arenas, increasing the activity.

Yes exactly. Using your logic, we should remove ALL PvP gear so people would queue more! But no, getting WF helm/shoulder/weapons is time consuming too isn't it?

Also, are there PvP offparts and trinkets that are higher than iilvl 264? No.

Are there PvE offparts/trinkets (which could be used in PvP) that are higher than ilvl 264? Yes, ilvl 277/284 to be exact.

Tl;DR PvE gear is the problem in PvP, not the PvP gear itself.

[Justicelight]

What we gain: making everyone susceptible to queue for arenas, increasing the activity.

Yes exactly. Using your logic, we should remove ALL PvP gear so people would queue more! But no, getting WF helm/shoulder/weapons is time consuming too isn't it?

Also, are there PvP offparts and trinkets that are higher than iilvl 264? No.

Are there PvE offparts/trinkets (which could be used in PvP) that are higher than ilvl 264? Yes, ilvl 277/284 to be exact.

Tl;DR PvE gear is the problem in PvP, not the PvP gear itself.

If you normalize the all the gear to a lower level than 264 ilvl, melee classes will lose their advantage.

[Bloodshade]

2Healers + 1 Shadowmourne comp were popular as well (3s comp based on having an SM). The season ended BEFORE Ruby Sanctum was on farm status IIRC (so not much STS, CTS trinkets etc...)

I just had to come and laugh at this. Do you really think Turtle comps are that effective? Minimal amount of people ever played these comps and most teams can easily beat it.

1. Restricting trinkets UNIFORMLY affects ALL races and all classes. Humans still can use two PvE trinkets (which IS still an advantage over other races).

I don't think you fully understand how your suggestion will work. When all of the other gear people have is 264-284ilvl and you limit ONLY TRINKETS to 239 human racial will become useless. Every warr/pala will go Horde so they can use Tauren/Orc/Belf racials, which are pretty decent and will be far more useful than crappy Ulduar trinkets.

PS: and yeah Bauble is an absolute must for Hpalas vs Ele/Destro, Rogue/priest/mage comps. Without it this comp will lose in 1 silence.

[skyx]

If you normalize the all the gear to a lower level than 264 ilvl, melee classes will lose their advantage.

And when did I say that? All I am saying is that PvE gear is the problem to PvP. Clearly you don't bother reading my posts so I will no longer answer to your replies.

I just had to come and laugh at this. Do you really think Turtle comps are that effective? Minimal amount of people ever played these comps and most teams can easily beat it.

Go laugh at Season 8 retail. That is what happened there.

I don't think you fully understand how your suggestion will work. When all of the other gear people have is 264-284ilvl and you limit ONLY TRINKETS to 239 human racial will become useless. Every warr/pala will go Horde so they can use Tauren/Orc/Belf racials, which are pretty decent and will be far more useful than crappy Ulduar trinkets.

Nope, I fully understand and it is fine by me. I will still stay human on all my characters however. PvP should be about who has superior skill and not RNG trinket proc luck.

PS: and yeah Bauble is an absolute must for Hpalas vs Ele/Destro, Rogue/priest/mage comps. Without it this comp will lose in 1 silence.

It seems you haven't played in an arena season with s5, s6 or s7 gear only. Healers can perfectly function without bauble, especially Holy Paladins.

[Justicelight]

If you normalize the all the gear to a lower level than 264 ilvl, melee classes will lose their advantage.

And when did I say that? All I am saying is that PvE gear is the problem to PvP. Clearly you don't bother reading my posts so I will no longer answer to your replies.

Too bad that PvE gear also have gear ilvl, which I was refering to.

[Justicelight]

I don't think you fully understand how your suggestion will work. When all of the other gear people have is 264-284ilvl and you limit ONLY TRINKETS to 239 human racial will become useless. Every warr/pala will go Horde so they can use Tauren/Orc/Belf racials, which are pretty decent and will be far more useful than crappy Ulduar trinkets.

PvP should be about who has superior skill and not RNG trinket proc luck.

You can call a trinket RNG luck proc only if its ppm based and not defined icd or cd based (wfs, dv, bauble, dfo, pnl, dbw, pnl).

Name me one trinket with minimum 264 ilvl which is based on ppm proc and that is causing problems instead of defined ICD, so I can destroy your own replies.

See how biased you are towards warriors here? If DBW is what comes to your mind (taunka/vyrkul/dwarf RNG proc).

[skyx]

http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/15803 ... ght-scale/

http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/154068-sts-vs-dbw/

"Destroy" the advice from ACTUAL retail gladiators please, Mr. TW private server "Gladiator".

(and yes, I have replied to you but whatever)

PS: For the record, I play mainly HUMAN characters. If I am biased to anything, it would be to FAIRNESS, BALANCE and mostly importantly, SKILL.

[Justicelight]

http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/15803 ... ght-scale/

http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/154068-sts-vs-dbw/

"Destroy" the advice from ACTUAL retail gladiators please, Mr. TW private server "Gladiator".

(and yes, I have replied to you but whatever)

PS: For the record, I play mainly HUMAN characters. If I am biased to anything, it would be to FAIRNESS, BALANCE and mostly importantly, SKILL.

Lol I admire your deception of having the standards to rate someone's skill by giving them titles in any way you want.

But good luck with the suggestion in any way you want it to be implemented.

[skyx]

Deception? You said you would "destroy" me but you have not so I am calling you out for it.

[SomethingWitty]

I like what youre suggesting but I dont agree with the way youre implementing it. Your trinket restrictions will definitely help new players but it wont really bring balance to arenas.

If you simply restrict trinkets it really wont do much apart from gimping casters and looking at the 2s ladder i see hardly any caster comps. Warriors/melee will still remain on top, iirc it was this way on AT too when they had ilvl restrictions. You need to restrict offsets and weapons so that melee are toned down too.

For the people arguing about bauble, yeah its a great trink for healer+dps teams but hardly essential when burst damage is toned down as a whole. Imo its much better in the hands of double dps teams. Hpalas certainly dont die in 1 silence against ele/destro, rogue/priest/mage comps unless:
1) Youre not using your cds for some reason
2) Your partner isnt peeling in which case you deserve to lose
3) Your positioning is dogshit in which case your problem wont be solved by 1 trinket
4) These comps actually become prevalent on this server lol, god forbid a change of meta
I find it hilarious that out of all the healers, you picked hpala as your example of choice. Plus, this becomes even more of a non-issue if trinkets are soley restricted.

This whole game is about luck and trinket procs certainly are considered luck. Sure you might argue that if youre good, youll know when to go hard and when to back off and theres nothing wrong with that. The problem is these procs make the game feel gimmicky when youre being crit for 12k.

[skyx]

If you simply restrict trinkets it really wont do much apart from gimping casters and looking at the 2s ladder i see hardly any caster comps. Warriors/melee will still remain on top, iirc it was this way on AT too when they had ilvl restrictions. You need to restrict offsets and weapons so that melee are toned down too.

Small steps at a time.

Restricting trinkets benefits casters more than melee (since they won't be 2shotted by a DBW+STS procced warrior with at least 3000 extra attack power...)

The reason why on AT it wasn't much is because they didn't allow ilvl277/284 items to be used in the first place. A drop from ilvl264 trinkets to ilvl239 isn't as impactful as ilvl284 to ilvl239.

Also, did you see the 3s ladder on AT when they had ilvl restrictions?

[SomethingWitty]

Yeah warrior damage op but if more people played lock here you would see them crying about lock burst instead.

I think they had a season with 277 gear enabled and alot of people were complaining about fire mages/locks/eles.

Nope never played much 3s but im guessing it was full of lsp?

[Bloodshade]

It seems you haven't played in an arena season with s5, s6 or s7 gear only. Healers can perfectly function without bauble, especially Holy Paladins.

You don't understand. In season 5/6/7 you didn't have PVE items with 20 item levels above the PVP gear, maximum was 7. Damage then wasn't so big as it is now. You really can't see this? or are you too blinded by your hate towards humans. Limiting only trinkets will nerf only certain comps/races, which as Justice said, rely on flat DMG instead of CC.

In season 8 BIS ele/destro can destroy a warrior in 3 seconds. Do you think the same can happen in furious gear?