[REJECTED] "Partial" Arena season resets problems and possible solutions

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ribbaribbahey
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Re: "Partial" Arena season resets problems and possible solutions

#31 » Post by ribbaribbahey » 29 May 2016 23:49

If you'd read everything and carefully you'd know that this is to populate the server and encourage PvP, not to make the current people farm everything back again. At the moment people does not have reasons to PvP, just like you wouldn't raid if you were BiS on everything.

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ribbaribbahey
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Re: "Partial" Arena season resets problems and possible solutions

#32 » Post by ribbaribbahey » 30 May 2016 00:10

Lowering the requisites for 325 WF weapon and shoulders is the dumbest thing you could do in this situation. There will be even more geared people soon, so that any chance of integration of the newcomers will be lost.

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Re: "Partial" Arena season resets problems and possible solutions

#33 » Post by keez » 30 May 2016 00:52

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Vaen
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Re: "Partial" Arena season resets problems and possible solutions

#34 » Post by Vaen » 30 May 2016 01:36

Lowering the requisites for 325 WF weapon and shoulders is the dumbest thing you could do in this situation. There will be even more geared people soon, so that any chance of integration of the newcomers will be lost.
"Like everyone didn't already have Shadowmourne and LK25hc weapons" <- quoting someone else. Honestly, reducing rating requirements for t2 weapon is about the most harmless thing you can do for newcomers, it's more aimed at discouraging shadowmourne and pve weapons in arena.

I too cannot see see what huge difference there's going to be between 4/5 people and 5/5 people when it comes to moping the floor with newcomers?
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Chillmaster
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Re: "Partial" Arena season resets problems and possible solutions

#35 » Post by Chillmaster » 30 May 2016 01:49

ribbaribbahey wrote:
Chillmaster wrote:the best scenario would be everyone playing with wrathful gear vs everyone playing with wrathful gear
On what basis? This is actually false, the game was balanced for Relentless gears. You want that scenario because noone would be allowed to have higher gears than that (which is actually wrong because PvE offers items with a far higher itemlevel).
If the game was balanced for relentless gear why did blizzard come up with WF gear in WOTLK?

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Re: "Partial" Arena season resets problems and possible solutions

#36 » Post by Bigfella » 30 May 2016 02:31

Those who are against this claim that Gear has nothing to do with it. Sounds to me like they're for it...
They'd get more games because the Full Wrath/SM teams would "still dominate" and "faceroll the other team in 2s" because "me pro u sux".

Yes - it's nice to beat a team that has a 1K GS advantage over you, but it's not the commonplace occurrence - you can look at the Arena Stats for Win/Loss for those.

That or we could just make all Gear available via Vote/Donor - which would ruin everything.

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Re: "Partial" Arena season resets problems and possible solutions

#37 » Post by ribbaribbahey » 30 May 2016 09:57

Chillmaster wrote:If the game was balanced for relentless gear why did blizzard come up with WF gear in WOTLK?
If humans evolved from apes, why are there still apes on Earth?
Wrathful gears, like high ilvl items, are the ENDGAME rewards, meaning that you are meant to get them at the very last period of the patch (expansion) and use them for a very short time.
I'll bring it to terms you can understand: does now ICC10hc feel challenging at all nowadays (without retards in group)? No. But Hc mode is meant to be very challenging, and few groups should be able to raid it. But the average gearscore of people is so high nowadays that you can carry low alts, or ignore some of the bosses' mechanics (like Sindragosa on burst tactic). If in PvE the side that suffers it (metaphorically speaking) is the raid's, in PvP there is an actual side that suffers the bypass of the game mechanics by endgame-geared people, and that is the newcomers/low geared people. For example, a non frost mage is practically killed by the sole autoattacks of a SM warrior (blinking, trinketing, and iceblocking the charges). It is just one of the examples, but the point is that there are unbalances in the game that people is not willing to accept. We lose newcomers, and ultimately the current players will stop playing -> we'll lose population. And the WF gears you are trying to defend here will have no use because there won't be any PvP.
Vaen wrote:I cannot see see what huge difference there's going to be between 4/5 people and 5/5 people when it comes to moping the floor with newcomers?
It is very simple: if someone prefers using 325 WF weapons or WF shoulders, it means that he/she gets an advantage from using them. Therefore they are furtherly advantaged versus gearing-up people. The sole advantage is that people ALREADY ABLE to reach 2200 (therefore most probably already having 325/344 weapons) will be more competitive in their MMR range in the same season, but outside that in BGs from the same season it will bring more imbalance. And then the following arena season the problem will be even more accentuated.
Plus, the sense of incompleteness drives people for chasing 3v3 (now 2v2) rating. Once they get *everything*, there will be no reason for them to play other than a casual arena or BG once in a while. No constant queues=drastic decrease of matches=no even attempts to queue.
Last edited by ribbaribbahey on 30 May 2016 10:37, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Partial" Arena season resets problems and possible solutions

#38 » Post by Justicelight » 30 May 2016 10:33

The way I see it, everyone could try and play any class. I have a feeling that, indirectly, all of these topics related to arena dampening stuff are ment to kill the discrepancies between players difference in skill and automatically high playtime. Why should we try to smooth the line between team advantages when each player tries to do exactly the oposite? prove himself, get on top of others and what not.

It's only a matter of perspective. There are really good players on this server and few of them are playing squishy roles like rogue or mage and I see them doing it very chilled and with minimum frustration. Unfortunately, TW doesn't need arena preset changes but rather good sinergy between partners, because everything, most of the teams feel random here. The days when people held tight to each other in the same team, enjoying victory and surpasing losses and still keep playing togheter are kinda over, and that is because the players are to be blamed, not the system.

In my opinion, we must have some sort of resilience to these kind of stuff, every change that we will try to do to the game as it is now, it will have repercusions more or less to other players, and when those players will come and yell their frustration on forum, more chaos will be created, some will be happy, others will quit. But people quited before. I would say let's not put gas on fire with more changes because the change must come from us, not from the arena system. We need more dedicated teams, and when I say that I mean partners dedicated to each other which have the abillity to aquire someone as being better without losing conviction to keep on trying. The less you try, the higher the chances others will try less too hence nothing will be changed in future.

So find yourself a good partner, yes, get carried even at full gear, have low expectations and everything will feel different.

And to give a go to this suggestion, even if I`m not up for it, when we speak about gear difference, PvE or PvP, we indirectly refer to stats, so why not introduce a buff in arena which will provide a reduction of stats based on % ? If the difference between two players is huge, the one with lower gear will be less affected by a certain % than the one with higher gear, so the two of them would get closer in output/gameplay. We can try with a reverse BoK or something that affect stats. Attention: I didn`t mention % damage/heal buffs because that will increase/nerf the gameplay too much.
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ribbaribbahey
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Re: "Partial" Arena season resets problems and possible solutions

#39 » Post by ribbaribbahey » 30 May 2016 10:59

Babe that's all glitter and unicorns, from the 20 people that will fully read that post, how many do you think will actually do it? And most importantly, your solution is based on means that aren't in players' powers (finding a good partner/get carried).
The last suggestion of yours is not Blizzlike. In a blizzlike server, the previous best set (WF in this case) would be the next season's second-best set. You could then say that the WF of one season are the next one's Relentless. My suggestion mimics in an EXACT way this cycle.
Last edited by ribbaribbahey on 30 May 2016 14:32, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Partial" Arena season resets problems and possible solutions

#40 » Post by Fastor » 30 May 2016 11:41

ribbaribbahey wrote:The last suggestion of yours is not Blizzlike.
True and true, but l would keep his suggestion as backup.

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Re: "Partial" Arena season resets problems and possible solutions

#41 » Post by Supernova » 30 May 2016 14:08

Starting with "the truth" :
"games where players are uneven in terms of ability and stats. Its not true measure of skills and most important skills wont matter at one point when you take few 5k+ hits in less than 2 seconds." ,from Fastor

Balance.
Balance is the most substantially thing equal to Everythign That Is aka the life,matrix,god even YOU or how you call it.
Any difference bewtewen two or more things means no balance in any case either spell,stat or somethign else.
Thos differences and the consequences of them makes us just to understand more and more how important is balance.

So from this ,only an unification of gear may balance things an step closer.


All of you/us that say you can beat wrathfuls with furious are afraid to lose your end game gear,playing with rele shouldnt be problem for you.Playng vs no one with wrathful is a problem.

Afraid of a chnage.
Its ok do be blizzlike but you cant be or anything if you dont exist.So you need to do something to survive in your own case.You cant if dont change/progress.Only changes make things going on,its like this evrywhere around us.

We have to do something before we are remembered only as : TrueWoW The blizzlike server RIP .

My sugestion is to make high and low gear teams to can not meet to an point.Maybe 3 separate zones : an fresh around 4 k another aorund 5 k and last over 6 k (may be also : you cant meet player/team with higher gs than 1 k of your .This is why there is raithing to seprate thos gear differences,but with that low populaion and our system it doesent work.So an strcit rule like this may help.

Yoy may tink that this will limite the teams that meet.
Aniway nowdays only 10 geared teams play arena limiting all other low geared teams to play.
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Re: "Partial" Arena season resets problems and possible solutions

#42 » Post by Psychotic » 30 May 2016 16:32

I immediately discard anyone's opinion when i see "gs"

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Re: "Partial" Arena season resets problems and possible solutions

#43 » Post by Psychotic » 30 May 2016 16:34

Let me just put my 2 cents in this: We need more active players.

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ribbaribbahey
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Re: "Partial" Arena season resets problems and possible solutions

#44 » Post by ribbaribbahey » 30 May 2016 18:51

Psychotic wrote: <nothing>
We need more active players.
<nothing else>
Thank you captain obvious. Probably you can get more players by praying the Holy Spirit, but since we other poor idiots can't, we need to understand how to make that happen by making the server more welcoming to new players.
We other poor idiots write all those walltexts to argument and discuss how to do it.

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Re: "Partial" Arena season resets problems and possible solutions

#45 » Post by keez » 30 May 2016 19:29

ribbaribbahey wrote:
Psychotic wrote: <nothing>
We need more active players.
<nothing else>
Thank you captain obvious. Probably you can get more players by praying the Holy Spirit, but since we other poor idiots can't, we need to understand how to make that happen by making the server more welcoming to new players.
We other poor idiots write all those walltexts to argument and discuss how to do it.
ofc, custom-noob friendly arena season will surely attract more pvp players Kappa

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